We love dave!

The way it was explained to me is that it's like bouncing a basket ball. If the balls not inflated properly (in accord to head tension, head material composition/age and dryness/hardness) you won't get the same result as if you had the ball at its proper inflation. And the harder you throw the ball at the ground, the farther it "should" bounce back, hence the nescessity to develop your ability (grip) to continue bouncing the "ball" effectively.

The older the heads are (especially if they are really old), the less "bounce" they have to them. And of course, the less desirable they sound usually.

So to sum it up.

Head composition = ball rubber type
Head age = age of ball
Stick = your hand (the medium to work with the ball)
Your grip/fulcrum/technique = your hand, your arm, muscle groups, and mechanics/application that bounces the ball

dsop,

i can't seem to PM ya. i can't find your contact info.

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Originally posted by Rudy_Ment:
Yep. Freddy Gruber seems to be quite a character, almost eccentric the way he was talking.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah for sure... I had the chance to study with him when I was 18 or 19 through another teacher that knew him, but passed it up. Heard some good stories though along the lines of:

Freddy: "Ok, that groove was not bad but it's missing something... look, play it like you are riding a camel over the sahara desert... like this." *insert riding camel demonstration here*

Student: "uhhhhhh... ummmmm... ok?"

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

Quote:

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Freddy: "Ok, that groove was not bad but it's missing something... look, play it like you are riding a camel over the sahara desert... like this." *insert riding camel demonstration here*

Student: "uhhhhhh... ummmmm... ok?"

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I see what you're getting at Chris, but that seems fair enough to me! Music is about expression, passion and emotions. It is a medium with which we can convey moods and envoke places and scenes. It doesn't all have to be about speed and technique. If playing the drums like we have just thrown it down a flight of stairs or like we are riding a camel is necessary to create the right feel or mood for a piece, then great!

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Originally posted by Andy Vermiglio:
Rudy,

I down loaded your video but only the audio plays. No image appears.

Andy

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry about that andy. I just uploaded the avi straight from my camera. I can compress it to divX mpeg 4 which will make the file smaller, but I'm not sure if it'll help you see it or not.
Anyone here good with this stuff and know how to get a video from a digital camera in some standard easy to view format?

Well .avi is a very common file extension for video and used a lot by members here. Are you using windows media player?
Visit their site and update to all the newest codecs. The video worked fine for me.

And now to you Rudy! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
Just as some words of encouragement:
Its easy to understan you are struggling with some of the technique. Don't expect to grasp this in the first week. If that were possible, everyone'd be playing like Dave.
You will probably watch the footage several times over and then finally notice some little part that you didn't think of before. Maybe you'll even do some reading on a random web site or come across another drummer where you will pick it up. Remember when I asked for some advice to refine my technique with single strokes (i.e. Using fingers rather than wrists?). Well that took a while too...It just suddenly clicks when you least expect it.

Maybe this doesn't really apply to you and you're well on your way - I don't know. Good luck practicing. If you really are stuck...NOTHING is better than an experienced teacher that can look over your shoulder and give you instant feedback.

Sheesh...They should include that in "Special Features" for all instructional DVDs now, huh? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Yeah, that is good advice suspiria. I will probably pay for some lessons with dazzler and marc and louie and get this sorted cos I reckon it's the key to a whole better way of playing. I reckon it's that important to pursue. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Nice video Rudy. I thought you were going to hit a drum there at first!

I've spent a lot of time thinking about the whole Weckl-Gruber concept and have practiced it a lot as well. It's something that makes sense on paper but I'm not sure exactly how applicable it is to the drum set. In a lot of the performace shots of Dave with the band on the DVD he's holding pretty tight and there doesn't seem to be much rebound. Nothing like when he's explaining it on the pad anyways.

In order for the stick to rebound, it needs to have the time required to do so. This isn't really a big issue until you start playing fast, which happens a lot when playing busy ghost-note oriented stuff.
What dictates how much time is required for the stick to rebound? The speed at which it rebounds of course.
What dictates the speed at which it rebounds? The speed at which the drum is initially struck. The harder you hit, the faster the stick comes flying back.

So is there ever a time when you can't wait the time required for the proper rebound? I don't know.
[img]eek.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 22, 2005 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Steve Holmes ]</font>

Suspria, good advice about having a teacher work with you on developing the technique.

Steve, I know what you mean. But, the rebound is still there when Dave is playing the kit. Since the strokes are so fast the rebound isn't as high, but it is still there. The stick is going to come up whether you're using the Moeller technique or not. It's a matter of how it's going to get up there...manually lifting it (you do the work) or just allowing the stick to rebound up (the stick does the "work"). And good point about the initial stick velocity required for a quick rebound...it's all related.

Yeah, good points there steve. I don't think I've ever really paid much attention to the way I rebound the stick, so I guess this is at least making me think about it a bit more. Actually, I noticed some inconsistencies in the DVD on second viewing. You're definitely right about his hands looking tighter when playing with the band than when demonstrating. He also talks about how he prefers playing double bass pedals with heels down for better balance, yet everytime the camera showed his feet playing double pedals, his heels were always up, lol.
He also talked about his approach these days being more for the music and less from thinking about being technical and chopsy as it was in the old days. Not sure I saw any difference, it's still all good ol' weckl flash to me but I love it!